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Bounty Hunter Revolver Serial Number Warnings and Importers Marks Caliber Marking Caliber Marking Manufacturer Marking Cylinder Windicator.38 Special Serial Number.357 Serial Number Proof Locating GUN ID MARKS/SERIAL NUMBERS - European American Armory/USSG.
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Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:00 pm |
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Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:43 pm
Posts: 1 | I have a double barrel exposed hammer 12 gauge . There is no maker name but the S # is 49838. With the serial nomber can any tell me the maker and the year? I would post a pic but I haven't figured out how to do it. Thank you for any help.
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Post subject: Re: Identification with serial number? |
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Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
Posts: 4635
Location: WA/AK | We need more than a serial number to go by. If you can't figure out how to post pictures, email them to me at AHFCA@comcast.net and I'll post them.
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Post subject: Re: Identification with serial number? |
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Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
Posts: 4635
Location: WA/AK |
Looks like an H & D Folsom Arms Co. product to me that has had some of its markings buffed off when it was reblued.
1925 --
1915 --
1905 --
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Post subject: Re: Identification with serial number? |
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 pm
Posts: 3773 | As Researcher says, not by just serial number alone. There is no great central place that assigns serial numbers to guns. Each maker does his own and it can vary from model to model and type to type. However other markings on the gun can be used to determine the maker and further investigation will disclose the information. There was no AMERICAN GUN CO, that is a 'Trade Brand Name' and H & D Folsom did not make guns, they sold them at wholesale and retail. The marking GENUINE ARMORY STEEL indicates that this gun was made by the Crescent Fire Arms Company of Norwich,CT (1892 to 1930+). Now, Crescent Fire Arms Company was owned by H & D Folsom from 1893 to 1930 and Folsom claimed in their catalogs that the guns were made in their own factory. While this is technically true, the name over the factory door was Crescent Fire Arms Company. Knowing this information and seeing the type of gun from the photographs (an outside hammer double barrel shotgun) and the serial number, we can determine when it was made. Now all Crescent Fire Arms Company records were lost during a scrap paper drive in 1943 during World War II, The late Mr. Joseph T. Vorisek,a noted old shotgun authority re-established the model type, serial number-year made tables during his research on Crescent Fire Arms Company for his Book 'The Breech Loading Shotgun In America 1865 To 1940'. The table is an approximation but it is all we have. Crescent double barrel hammer shotgun serial number 49838 was made approximately in November 1899. The serial number range for 1899 ran from 36,000 to 54,00, with about 1,500 guns produced a month. You do the math.
With a gun this old, all of us here will issue a warning on attempting to shoot it—DON'T! The gun was designed and made to shoot the ammunition in use back then which was 2 1/2 inch (fired length) shot shells loaded with black powder and lead shot. It was not designed for longer shells 2 9/16 or 2 3/4 inch shells loaded with smokeless powder and certainly not 3 inch magnums loaded with high pressure smokeless powder, steel shot or solid slugs. Most people know nothing about shotguns and to them a 12 gauge is a 12 gauge and all shells are the same. Given the American propensity for wanting bigger and faster, they are going to buy the most powerful ammunition they can and stuff it in the gun. A 3 inch shell can be stuffed in a 2 1/2 chamber. And if after Joe Blow stuffs a 3 inch magnum in one of these old guns, cocks both hammers and pulls both triggers, and after various pieces of the gun take off for parts unknown, assuming he is still standing, has the proper number of fingers and eyes, we don't want him coming back to us and saying, 'You didn't tell me that wasn't safe'. If you insist on wanting to shoot the gun, have your medical and life insurance paid up, then go ahead but only after you have the gun inspected by a good competent double barrel gunsmith. If he says it's O.K. then use only appropriate ammunition. This is getting too long. Value? if you want a guess, please ask.
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Post subject: Re: Identification with serial number? |
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:55 pm
Posts: 836 | This is a Meriden Firearms Co/ A.J. Aubrey shotgun:
Looks an awful lot like the posters gun, especially the pin/screw locations.
You can see the gun at: http://www.collectorebooks.com/gregg01/shotgun2/Lot-368.htm
This one is marked A. J. Aubrey:
Looks almost the same. You can see it at: https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=234280
Aubrey and Meriden were names used for a gun manufacturing company in Meriden Conn. It was owned by Sears and sold in their catalog.
I believe the used 'Armory Steel' on their barrels.
They look an awful lot like the Crescent/American guns but were considered to be of a higher quality.
The Meriden Firearms name was used 1905-1918. A.J. Aubrey was the earlier name. They made some highly engraved models that have a substantial collectors interest.
This is a Crescent:
You can see it at: http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f33/crescent-sxs-shotgun-restoration-58510/
Looks at lot like the Meriden and the posters gun except for the lack of a pin at the front of the sidelock. Also seems to have a more elongated breech block cone to my eye.
Without a name on the gun it may be difficult to tell which of thee companies made it but I'd vote for Aubrey/Meriden.
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Post subject: Re: Identification with serial number? |
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:35 pm
Posts: 1477
Location: AZ but dreaming of KS | Aubrey/Meriden rib
Early Crescents had the 'Genuine Armory Steel' on the left barrel
_________________
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl .. m/www/home
Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
'Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more.'
Kingsley Brown 'Shoot more, shop less.'
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Post subject: Re: Identification with serial number? |
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:55 pm
Posts: 836 | From:
'SHOTGUN MARKINGS: 1865 TO 1940
A LIST
Compiled by Joseph T. Vorisek:
GENUINE ARMORY STEEL-CHOKE BORED
• Crescent Fire Arms Co.
• Meriden Fire Arms Co.'
(The List is online courtesy of Cornell Publication at: http://www.cornellpubs.com/free-files/Shotgun%20Markings-Vorisek%20BW%20Portrait.pdf. It can be Searched and Copied. Makes it easy!)
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Post subject: Re: Identification with serial number? |
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:35 pm
Posts: 1477
Location: AZ but dreaming of KS | Aubrey/Meriden shotguns were marked as such on the rib; Pat. Applied For until the patent was granted in 1907
'Pat'd Jy 9 1907' thereafter
The gun shown does not have the Meriden rib markings
_________________
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl .. m/www/home
Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
'Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more.'
Kingsley Brown 'Shoot more, shop less.'
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Post subject: Re: Identification with serial number? |
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:55 pm
Posts: 836 | True, but I'm not sure the 'Patent' markings are definitive. The list at http://damascus-barrels.com/Aubrey.html shows some guns that were not marked with 'Patent' in any form. It also shows some guns the were marked 'Amory Steel' or just 'Steel'. Not sure why it doesn't show any marked 'Genuine Armory Steel'.
Mysteries are always fun.
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Post subject: Re: Identification with serial number? |
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 pm
Posts: 3773 | Just a small follow up. Yes both Crescent and Meriden used markings GENUINE ARMORY STEEL and CHOKE BORED. However as shown in the photographs. Meriden marked their double with the company logo on the top rib. The photograph accompanying the original posting matches an illustration contained in information I have on the H & D Folsom Company for a Crescent made gun. Also while digging through my reference material, I came across a serial number-year made table for Meriden made guns. Lord knows where I got it. Anyway a Meriden made hammer double with a serial number of 49838 was made in 1915. I still believe the gun was made by Crescent Fire Arms.
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Post subject: Re: Identification with serial number? |
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:55 pm
Posts: 836 | Good point. I was thinking of Meriden using 'Patent' on all guns and not of using the company name on all guns. If they did use their name on all their top barrel ribs it would almost certainly be a Crescent. If there was a pic of the Watertable it should help. I believe Meriden used unique markings to indicate the Model, etc.
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What year was my Winchester manufactured? (Serial Number Reference)
Winchester Firearms Manufacturing Dates by Serial Number and Year 1866 through the early 1990s
Below is the download link for a special resource for dating Winchester firearms. These pages were scanned from documents compiled over the years by the customer service department of Winchester Repeating Arms. None of the page scans are of original documents but are simply transcribed information typed into a word processing program. In general, this information is the same that you would get if you called our customer service department and asked them for the information. They use these documents as a reference and the documents should be limited to that use.
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Click the image below to download the PDF document containing the serial number date-range information on many Winchester firearms. You will need the Adobe Reader program to open this file. Adobe Reader is available free from Adobe.
THE HISTORY OF WINCHESTER HISTORIC SERIAL NUMBER RECORDS.
Contoh soal himpunan dan pembahasannya. There are many “legends” about why the historic serial number records for Winchester rifles and shotguns are not complete or why they are not always verifiable. A few reasons cited are:
- A fire at the factory
- Inadvertent destruction (during office cleaning)
- Records simply lost in filing
- Records misplaced between ownership transitions
- Documents borrowed but not returned
There is probably some kernel of truth to all of them. Proxima nova font similar. But the fact remains; there is no original, single, totally accurate database of serial numbers from 1866 forward that we are aware of. But perhaps these pages can help you somewhat in your research.
Please keep the following points in mind as you explore these pages:
- Many of the Winchester brand firearms produced over the years are included, but not all. If your firearm is not listed, we probably do not have any additional information.
- Before the 1990s the Winchester Repeating Arms firearms brand transferred ownership several times. Any information before the 1990s is always difficult to verify.
- In general, only serial number ranges with an approximate year are provided in this document. There is no other detail beyond this that we can provide.
- Since this information was provided through old documents (both official and otherwise), no representation is made that all serial number and year combinations are totally accurate.
- In some exceptional cases, a more detailed, accurate determination can be made by calling the Winchester Repeating Arms Historian at the Morgan, Utah office. 800-333-3288. Ask for the Winchester Repeating Arms Historian.
- For any other questions: 800.333.3288 or 801.876.2711. For Parts and Service call: 800.322.4626
- For questions related to Ammunition don’t call us. Contact Winchester Ammunition directly.
- No attempt has been made to determine the value of any guns listed.
- The Cody Firearms Museum has more information on Winchesters produced before 1900.
- This late historian George Madis compiled extensive histories on Winchester firearms. www.georgemadis.com
Gun Lookup By Serial Number
There are other outside resources – including the Cody Firearm Museum -- which can be excellent for determining date of manufacture and value: Click here to go to our gun values resource links.
Click below to download a PDF overview of Cody Museum serial number resources.
Firearm Identification By Serial Number
(Please remember that this information is a compilation over time -- collected from secondhand information. No confidentail records were used. We reserve the right to make changes at any time and make no claims as to accuracy. No attempt has been made to determine the value of any Winchester products.)
© Winchester Repeating Arms, 2012, 2015, R. Stitt